Merk: Very supportive, all of you.
Even on days when I fall short to every woman listening to this, I say, come through eyebrows. Merk: Season two Black ISH episode. But hopefully this next clip doesn’t make you cry.

Like, the zing is really important, you know, but I will say, like, I have really close friends today that we did not have a zing. But I think that, like all things in friendship, if a situation makes you feel uncomfortable, no matter what it is, you have to bring it up, because, if you don’t, that is the thing that is going to eat at your friendship. Nyge: So this segment is a little bit inspired by a segment we did in season two during our Cuffed ISH episode, where our exes evaluated us as romantic partners. Merk: Nuts nuts nuts! The key to figuring out what we meant to each other really lay in unlocking that vocabulary. This is a dynamic that happens in a lot of intimate relationships, full stop. Okay. Beck: On the creative collaboration—I think Shine Theory is the first instance where something personal from your friendship got co-opted for a broader audience, is that right?

Merk: I mean, I could feel it. I have a friend who always records herself doing a video and that also makes me super, super happy. But, do you notice any major differences about each other? She’s someone who has been part of the best moments of my life. Merk: And, oh! You happen to both pick up a hobby at the same time. I really sabotaged that episode on purpose. A healthy friendship involves stretches in both directions. Welcome you two!

It was the first time that we said to each other, “This feels awful.” And when we started looking around for a framework for repairing a relationship, the only framework that comes to mind is therapy.

Big Friendship is now available for pre-order wherever books are sold. JKB is what she likes to call him. So are y’all ready? Yup. So Merk, tell ‘em how we’re gonna be humiliating ourselves today. Nyge: I don’t even … you’ve transcended my levels of cry. In 2013, I was a columnist for The Cut. Aminatou: I don’t know. Nyge: Now, moving on to scenario two, that might sound a little more personal. And when I have context for what’s going on in your life, like, “Oh, today is really hard,” or this other, you know … There’s these other external pressures on your time and your emotions or your whatever. Beck: Has the combination of all those things yielded any insights that you’ve brought into your life? For us, it was really telling that once it was suggested, even though both of us were weirded out by it, we thought that was still better than whatever weirdness we had been trying.

The actual act of working together, that was really easy and seamless. The threats are never the things that you think about. And that just was not the case. Even in friendship, paternalism has a hold. So, it’s a lot. You could go years with a friendship requiring only a comfortable, familiar set of stretches, and then one of you starts working a night shift, becomes a primary caregiver, or meets their future spouse, and you have to learn a whole new repertoire. There is something about the words bestie or BFF or even best friend that imply that it’s an exclusive relationship that you have with one person. Like there was one giant misunderstanding that we could source all of our problems to. Ashlee: I think of the girl I used to be trying so hard to be one of the boys.

Aminatou Sow and Ann Friedman, co-hosts of the podcast “Call Your Girlfriend.” Co-authors of the new book “ Big Friendship: How We Keep Each Other Close .” ( @callyrgf ) You have the same amount of time and on top of that you have existential dread, plague fatigue, and you’re still supposed to keep up with people. Nyge: Yeah.

Yeah, you didn’t know I knew highlights like that. Here is the middle ground of how we’re going to do it.” You know, I think that you just have to be able to talk about it, because if it’s like a thing where you’re just being, like, uptight and controlling, and you’re like, “This is what I want,” It’s like, “Well, you know, you should probably just work alone.” If you are going to work with other people, you need to figure out, like, how do we get the best work out of both of us at the same time.

I needed to go, “Wait, where am I?”. Friedman: “The stretch” is our metaphor for the growth and change that is required of both parties if some circumstance changes in your friendship. But I am strong.”. What is that doing to your life? So real quick, before we get into it, I got something I gotta get off my chest, to be honest. Ann Friedman, 38, a co-author of Big Friendship, and co-host of the podcast Call Your Girlfriend, who lives in Los Angeles, California. Spouses can consult one of the dozens of advice books out there or get a couple’s therapist.

Yeah. The hosts take a step outside themselves to help them acknowledge the under-appreciated moments in their #adulting journeys. Ann: I’m just gonna say, “Hi Dayo. Beck: I really like the concept of “big friendship,” which your book is named for, because one of the interesting and sometimes frustrating things about the word friend is that it covers so many different kinds of relationships—from a work friend you get coffee with, to someone you talk to every day and spend holidays with.
For the episode art, I was holding a peace sign and I remember Davey, our boss, being like, “Hey, that’s kind of a stereotypical, like, pose for Asians. Merk: Was that more expensive than your engagement ring? Merk: Alright but not gonna lie, I didn’t always grasp what this word meant because I heard the word thrown around growing up too … without the Prosecco.

What makes that moment so embarrassing for you? Aminatou Sow: We met in Washington, D.C., in 2009, at a Gossip Girl viewing party. The same thing happened with the podcast in the sense that our lives were changing, we were participating in the changing of our lives, but we had a real inability to discuss it. I love it. Merk: We all do take Ls, and it’s pretty hard to be funny on the spot, especially when you’re with a high profile guests like W. Kamau Bell, because, you know, you want to be impressive to them, but you also want to be yourself. She still can’t twerky. In some ways it is highly narcissistic—welcome to being a human being. At its heart, Call Your Girlfriend is a celebration of a specific kind of all-encompassing friendship — one that carries just as much weight as any romantic relationship. I know I look good without it, but it accentuates my features. It doesn’t mean that we’re ourselves with the audience, right? Are you gonna leave that in? Hosts: Aminatou Sow & Ann Friedman.

If that friend had not set us up, we would have eventually met somehow in the scene that we were in, in D.C. Nyge: Know your platform … nah, I’m playing! “With friendship, there is this expectation that it’s supposed to be easy, which … is not an honest assessment of what any long-term, intimate bond looks like.”. We used to just pick up the phone and call someone, it’s fine. It’s part of my soul now. Nyge: He starts playing the sax live. Every other month I have dinner with a small group of friends and this time we decided to do it as a virtual hangout instead. Merk: Exactly. Excerpt from BIG FRIENDSHIP by Aminatou Sow and Ann Friedman.

Even from the earliest days, we had weird blogs together.

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